Ponderings along the Song of Ice and Fire way

[baleanoptera]

I have been re-reading Martin. This happens quite frequently. Two things have struck me lately, and I have been pondering. Now this is all loose speculation – but please hear me out:

The first:

The kings of winter in the Winterfell crypt. They sit with their swords drawn over their knees, and a wolf at their feet. When Robb greets Tyrion in Game of Thrones, the feeling is tense – and he has a sword drawn over his knees. It’s Bran’s POV – and he thinks that a greeting like this is a bad sign. So what are the Kings of winter greeting – sitting like they are?

The second:

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come

This is the wording of the Nightwatch oath. I love it, it’s beautiful – but it’s also a little strange. Especially this part: I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, […]
It goes from talking about what the initiate shall do, to what he is once he is part of the watch. He is the sword in the darkness. I’ve always liked that, the way the wording of the oath underlines that the person swearing is no longer an individual, but part of the brotherhood. In fact he is a tool of the brotherhood.

But as I was reading it, and I started thinking – the light that brings the dawn – the light bringer? As in Lightbringer that is associated with Azor Ahai? Because Martin wouldn’t hide a detail like that right? Well, yes he would – but that still doesn’t exempt me from grabbing at straws here.

Now the prophesy about Ahai and Lightbringer is given as this in Clash of Kings (in my paperback that is p. 111):

In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him.

And this mentions a sword –and not some ragged band of Nightwatch men. Except that the oath also states: I am the sword in the darkness.[…] . I am the fire that burns against the cold

So, could the prophesy be talking not about a literal sword, but a metaphorical sword, a weapon in the form of the Nightwatch – and who ever controls the Nightwatch wields this weapon?

See – this must be what going mad feels like. Re-reading Martin for the unnumbered time. *sigh* If he could just please finish the next book my head would be a quieter place. At least for a time…

Comments

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

This is awesome! I was always thinking that Dany will be Azor Ahai but now I see that it can be Jon!!! It all connects beautifully. But, of course, - in my brain full of OTP I already have two of them married :)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

This is awesome!

*lets out a sigh of relief* Thank you. I was so worried it wouldn't make sense to anyone. I was sitting there thinking - "this is probably all in my head". But the more I looked at the Nightwatch oath, the more I thought: "But it does make a little sense doesn't it? maybe I should just post it and see." *g*

And Azor Ahai can still be Dany, with Jon by her side. ;)

[alexandral.livejournal.com]

I am so relieved - I thought it was only me with my romance-warped brain thinking that Dany and Jon can suit each other very well :)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

*g* No, it's not just you.
And you have a sandor/sansa icon! I think after Jaime/Brienne they are my favourite pairing in the series. A little strange since I didn't like Sansa at all until the end of Clash. But the scene where sandor forces her to sing - see, then I was sold.

[nutmeg3.livejournal.com]

I just came by to read this on winterspel's recommendation, and I'm glad I did. I love your thoughts about the vow, and I can't wait to see if you're right. (Well, I just can't wait period, but you know what I mean.)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

I love your thoughts about the vow, and I can't wait to see if you're right.

Thank you! :) That is good to hear. I was afraid it might be to much into crackpot-territory. But the wording is rather peculiar, and I cannot bring myself to think it's all because of poetic license.


And I hear you on the "can't wait" part. Rationally I of course want Martin to take his time, and write the best book possible - but emotionally I'm all "I want it now!" *sigh*
It doesn't help that Feast ended with such cliffhangers either, or that those cliffhangers might not be resolved before the book after Dance

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

There is also Brienne’s sword that blazes in the darkness in Jaime’s dream!

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

There is that - and Brienne is from an island so she could fit the whole born among salt and smoke thing.

Also the sword she got from Jaime has these weird, almost flamelike patterns, and in Jaime's dream the darkness does flee before her - like it says in the prophesy. Hmm..this is very interesting. But wha! I'm without my books here so I cannot check properly. Martin's books should come in a handy travel size.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Heh! I have the giant hardcovers and the mass-market paperbacks for portability. But I think you are right about the sword that Jaime gives to Brienne (how wonderful if SHE is Azor Ahai – except that … didn’t he have to kill the thing he loved the best? Ack!)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

didn’t he have to kill the thing he loved the best? Ack!

Wha! Yes he did! I don't think I could handle that - exemplified by the fact that I don't really want to think about it. Brienne killing Jaime would just be too horrible.

But it would be very cool if she was Azor Ahai. Except for the possible killing Jaime part - which is not on!But then again I have caught my self pondering theories about how Jaime could survive the series - even if I doubt that will happen.
It's odd - but Martin's books are by me anticipated both with excitement and pure dread.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

I think it would destroy Brienne to kill Jaime now (or to even have any kind of role in his death) and I hope that Martin won’t do that to her. She’s one character who is purely GOOD and I hope her journey doesn’t involve her having to kill someone she loves.

[sunnyskywalker]

Oh, I like this! I wonder if the kings are greeting Winter itself?

I'm definitely on board for the "sword = Night's Watch" idea. I also wonder if that sword called Dawn will figure into this somehow (the prophecy could have multiple meanings, all true, just to mess with us!).

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the kings are greeting Winter itself?

Ooooh! Intriguing! They might be yes. Also in regards to the crypt there are all these other stories - like how Bale the Bard hid with Lord Starks daughter there. How Jon keeps dreaming about the Kings of Winter (and them telling him he is not a Stark).

I'm definitely on board for the "sword = Night's Watch" idea

Yay! The more I think about it the more I like it. Possibly because I'm not that fond of a "magical sword" fixing everything. I like things to be a bit more complex.

As for Dawn I think that will come into play as well, but as of yet it is till in the Dayne stronghold of Starfall. But since the wielder of the sword is called "Sword of the Morning" then I think its safe to say there is some significance.

Also - pet theory without any proof:
Rheagar read something in the scrolls and books when he was a child, prompting him to think he must become a warrior. I suspect he read about the coming of Winter and wanted to prepare. Also Rheagar was quite fond of prophesies and my suspicion is that he read some prophesies and interpreted them wrong - could one of the things that waylaid him have been the presences of his best friend Arthur Dayne with his "Sword of the Morning" title and wielding of Dawn? Could Rheagar have gone through the checklist and said "born in salt and fire" - check, that is me because of Summerhall (whatever happened there). A sword called "Lightbringer" - well check as well, as my good friend Arthur has a rather nifty sword etc. In other words could the presences of Dawn have been Rheagar's red herring? (If you get my point?) As in when he read "Lightbringer" he automatically thought about Dawn, to the exclusion of everything else?

[sunnyskywalker]

Ooh, I like that idea about Rhaegar and the prophecies. If only people in fantasy series could learn to LEAVE PROPHECIES THE HELL ALONE. They're bad news!

I was just surfing around and came across the theory that the sword is Dany's dragons (they came out of a fire, and they make things burn - don't know whether you could call Dany a warrior, exactly, though). Now, this also sounds good, but so does the "sword = Night's Watch > Jon = Azor Ahai?" Soooo.... going even further into wild theory territory, who says Azor Ahai reborn has to be just one person, and the sword has to be just one sword? The dragon has three heads, right? They could both be the prophecy-figure.

This leaves the question of who's the third. Maybe it was Rhaegar. Prophecies don't guarantee success, as the Stallion Who Didn't Mount the World seems to show. Or - another unsupported theory here: we have an example of a royal baby switcheroo with Mance Rayder's son and Gilly's son. Maybe the same thing happened with baby Aegon, and he's still out there somewhere. Are there any boys about 16 or 17 we know of with purple eyes or silvery hair? (Not that that's proof either way, since he could be someone we haven't met yet if he exists.)

[baleanoptera.livejournal.com]

learn to LEAVE PROPHECIES THE HELL ALONE. They're bad news!

yeah, just ask Anakin Skywalker as following that prophecy went well. ;) But doesn't Maester Marvin (or some such) say a thing or two about prophecies at the end of "Feast"? How they will only end up causing trouble?

who says Azor Ahai reborn has to be just one person, and the sword has to be just one sword? The dragon has three heads, right? They could both be the prophecy-figure.

yeah I think that is pretty likely. You could have Dany for fire, Jon as a ice/fire middleperson and perhaps Bran with his warging and ice connections as the third. The three eye crow did after all tell Bran that he would fly. Didn't say how. ;)

Are there any boys about 16 or 17 we know of with purple eyes or silvery hair?

It depends. There are theories that baby Aegon was switched and is still alive. There is also the fact that House Dayne (who always seem to be lurking in the background when Targaryens are concerned) have purple eyes. So a bastard of Arthur, Ashara or someone else could be presented as a Targaryen. Added to this is the rumour Cat heard that Jon was Ashara's boy - so somehow the rumour had started that Ashara was pregnant.

Also remember - Wylla was a wet-nurse for the Daynes. This is what Edric Dayne tells Arya when she visits The Brotherhood without Banners. He also calls Jon his milk brother, as he thinks Jon is Wylla's kid and that she nursed them both. He also shows surprise when Arya hasn't heard about Wylla before.
See? It all comes back to the Daynes! They know something I tell ya!